March 15, 2007

LTD's Pyramid Scheme

Last night I received my second ever pitch for a pyramid scheme. A young couple we had met "by chance" at a store last Friday presented to us a short 15 minute spiel on LTD or Leadership Team Development.

It's an attempt to play on people's greed. The idea is that, through the Internet and recruitment of others to sell products, you can earn a great deal of money. The couple's spiel was uninformative and secretive. He would drop names without actually using them, like when he said one of the partners owned the Orlando Magic. Perhaps it's true, but how could I tell? I wasn't allowed to keep the brochure the husband showed us, and I was encouraged to commit to attending a one hour class.

All this was familiar to me, as when I was out of work a year or so ago, I attended a similar attempt to join a different pyramid scheme or work from home scheme as I call it. So I was skeptical, as I had heard all this before. I then refused to commit anything to this couple, and took my wife home.

I did a little research this morning. Turns out Quixtar, a company that is or was at one time associated with LTD, is a new version of Amway. NBC did an expose on Quixtar and found it to be a fake and a fraud. Some of my research has people saying LTD is different because it is Christian, but it is still the same scheme even if it is unaffiliated with Quixtar or others of its ilk. It is the same. While it is not really a scam, because you can make some money, you probably end up spending more on the motivational tapes and CD's than you actually make. And it is the people who lead seminars and sell the motivational claptrap that really make the most money.

Well, maybe such a pyramid scheme works for some people, but I have better things to do with my time, and more important goals to meet than wealth or power.

The thing that really got me though was how the couple sold this as first a ministry and then as a team building exercise. To me, it almost sounded like a cult more than anything. Perhaps this greed with a Christian veneer is why Christians get such a bad name.

I found it offensive that this couple tried to bill this as a ministry opportunity. I went, and took the wife with me because I really liked the couple, we need some friends, and they seemed genuine. Now, I wonder. I wanted to do some networking in the Christian world. Since I'm in finance for Christians, that is an important part of what I do. I did not expect to be invited to satiate my greed and carnal laziness. Oh yeah, did mention that one could make enough to take one's child to Costa Rica to study Spanish, and work from there? Or that you could work only a few hours a day and make a quarter million?

They found out as much about us as they could and then hit all the targets. We are former teachers, we support ministries, we love to read, each and everyone one of those, to hear this couple talk, would be better for our joining LTD and selling name brand products.

It's sad that people fall for this, but then it meets our most basic and carnal desires. We are sinfully lazy, lust for power and wealth, and are inherently rebellious towards those in authority. To be self-employed, make a lot of money, and do it in very few hours seems great right? It's too good to be true, and don't be taken in.

Posted by John on March 15, 2007 10:32 AM | Posted to Business
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Comments

Thank you for this insight. I, too, was just approached. After internet research, i fel that it is quite the scam. Soooo glad I had enough sense to resaerch and WALK AWAY!!!!

Posted by: Jamie & Janeen Cosgrove on March 31, 2007 08:14 PM

My wife also had a 'chance' meeting with one of the LTD couples last week. I told her that there was about a 50/50 chance that this was a pyramid scheme, but I decided to go along anyway.

As soon as they pulled out the pamphlet and starting telling me about business models and franchising, I shut down.

I felt deceived and asked some pretty biting questions that I knew would reveal this pyramid for what it really was.

Posted by: Jay on April 26, 2007 08:31 AM

I drove 45 stinking minutes to find out that this vague "internship" was a pyramid scheme. I remember many people in So California being ARRESTED from their places of work in the hayday of the Pyramid. Beware of a name Dennis Henderson, he was the guy who "interviewed" me for this "opportunity". The guy who approached me from work chatted with me the next day, and I told him that I wasn't interested... no need to inform him he is being scammed. Maybe I should.

Posted by: Tom Weatherford on May 15, 2007 10:47 AM

I too was approached at a store. We started by talking about video games and next thing i know he's showing me sum dirty, crumpled up brochure. He asked me to meet him the next day at a McDonald's and I went just because I had nothing else to do. I arrived to our meeting on time however the man i was supposed to meet arrived 15 minutes late. The funny thing is, while i was waiting for my guy, A NEW LTD scammer came up to me with the same pitch. At first i thought he was gonna ask me for sum change. The guys looked like bums, and I decided to just say "screw it" to the whole thing. Don't fall for it.

Posted by: Dnazzle on June 11, 2007 07:43 AM

Thank you for taking the time to voice your option. I've been doing a direct sales business for almost 12 years (Pampered Chef). My daughter went to a meeting last night with Quixtar & came home last to say that she wanted to talk with me about the business in the morning & take me to a meeting in Lincoln NE on WE. I've been skeptical since she told me about it. After some research & your helpful comments - I'm ready to help her NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE! Working hard pays off when it's the right company

Posted by: Lenore on June 26, 2007 10:29 AM

I was just approached by a LTD representative today after class. I was told that our university has a team. I thought that it was a scam. I will go to the meeting anyway.

Posted by: D-Win on July 3, 2007 05:27 PM

if anything seems to good to be true. guess what?

Posted by: sprswm2r on July 14, 2007 10:36 AM

Thanks for the info. My husband and I have been approached by them recently, too....actually TWICE. They also used a chance meeting at a local store to try to win us over. Sounds shady to me; true Christians don't use deceptive practices!

Posted by: dmac on August 1, 2007 11:09 PM

An overly friendly person at a local coffee shop started a conversation with me. He asks for my business card, which I give him, and then he called me a few days later to meet. I agreed, met, and actually considered it enough to logon and check out his web site. Its down and the guy didn't even know it. WTF?

Posted by: pimpc on August 7, 2007 11:09 PM

The websites are a joke. You need a password to logon and they won't give you the password unless you go to the seminar. Although this is technically a legitimate business, it is morally questionable.

Posted by: John on August 8, 2007 11:19 AM

can someone post some research links. I was approached by a friend.

Posted by: moe on August 19, 2007 12:03 AM

My good friend, both an old football buddy and an Army buddy, asked me to get in on it. He's a cool, pretty smart guy. So I met up with him at a coffee shop and sat down to talk with him about it. He really didn't know too much; so, of course, I had to go to the Seminar so I could hear a speaker.

The speaker was pretty good. The buisness looks legit, save for the hint of the pyramid...

How it works, is you need to send so many people to buy crap online, and they're tagged by some code they need to punch in. It's your code, so you get credit for what they buy. Credit, as in 3% starting. The more you sell in a month, the higher your percent.


Here's the kicker: Your recruits' credit is added to your account. So the $300 I sold, and the $150 he sold gives me $450. And it gets worse from there! His recruit's only had the opportunity because YOU recruited him, so it's only fair if you get a bit of their pie, too.

It seems fair, right? Yeah, perfectly fair when you're on the top of the pyramid. It's unfair to call them a scam, though.. The speaker was pretty bold when painting details, and by the time he was done writing out figures, there was a big triangle/pyramid on the marker board. You can call it a scheme, because you get cash fast, and then let your minions work for you; then their minions, etc.

But, when you think about it, any corporation is the same way:

CEO/Owner
VP's
Regional Managers
District Managers
Store Managers
Department Managers
Leads
Grunt Staff

Either way, you start off at the bottom, and need to climb your way up.. It's just the difference between a "job ladder" and a "pyramid scheme."

So I'm not going to say whether or not you should get into the company. I'm not big on recruiting other people just so I can stand around and watch; the Army does enough of that as is. It's a legit buisness where the highers take a little credit from the lowers. Kinda like a lead telling a manager that your work was all his idea.

Posted by: Mike on September 7, 2007 01:02 PM

Mike - Right, but in a well run corporation, the senior execs are not living off the hard work of the grunts. The grunts fulfill vital roles, freeing up the execs to make the big decision that benefit everybody.

Posted by: John on September 7, 2007 01:09 PM

I meant to say, also, my greatest offense at this event was not the scheme itself, which is legit it was the way it was sold.

It felt like a cult, and these people we thought we were befriending were just using the opportunity to gain more adherents.

We just wanted some friends, not a sales pitch.

PS: Since I posted this in March, I ahve heard nothing from these people, even though I have tried to contact them several times.

Once I rejected them, the pretense of friendship was over.

Posted by: John on September 7, 2007 01:11 PM

A good friend of mine from a few years back approached me about it, and the thing is, I don't think that he knew what was going on, either, because I can't imagine why he'd try to pull me into something like this.

Posted by: Malcolm on September 9, 2007 02:26 AM

John,

I realie that the pyramid and any common job ladder have their differences.

And yes, they seem cult-like; but HR for any other company seems like a cult, too. They have to be nice, and they have to try and befriend you. It is a part of their pitch; they try and bring it to a friendly level where you feel obligated to help them out, and join.

They are overly peppy because it makes the company look like it's a great place to work. They crack bad jokes because their jokes can't offend any one person; because then that person will not want part of the company.

That's why they seem like a cult. Because, just like a cult, they desperately want to pull you in.


The one thing that bothered me; is how they play off of your greed and laziness. People want free money.

I had another meeting a day and a half ago, and asked a lot of questions. It's a $25 fee to join LTD. Quick Star; the program they use, charges $75 to enlist. Part of that covers your buisness liscense(sp?), etc. So it's $100 to start making cash.

Quick Star also sells a sample kit for $100; which simply makes it easier for you to sell stuff.

LTD also makes available extra buisness classes for $40. Even if I join the company in the end, I'm staying away from that. I know enough about, "Yeah, this stuff's great, buy it," to get me enough points. I don't feel like paying more money, just to have to go to more company meetings. There's a Thursday Night seminar out here.. Every week. I'm expected to go to those if I join.. And if I don't, I was told to go anyhow, up until when I make my descision not to join.


Oh, people.. One thing you need to understand: If you're not interested, tell them right away. Because they'll offer you all the information you want. And the more time you spend talking to them; the more they're going to pressure you. You are taking their time out of their day, and they'll guilt trip you in the end.

Posted by: Mike on September 9, 2007 05:09 PM

I agree w/you, John: it's not the scheme so much as it is the sales tactics.

It's the exact opposite of a ministry opportunity - it's a great way to lose friends and alienate people.

Posted by: Evan Donovan on September 9, 2007 09:20 PM

Mike- I asked for more information and they wouldn't give it to me unless I went to the seminar.

I couldn't even walk away with a brochure to review!

That just felt wrong.

As Evan said, and I tried to say, the company is legal, its isn't doing anything wrong, but its sales tactics are slimy, and I just get a bad vibe.

(I've learned to trust my vibes, there are often correct.)

Posted by: John on September 10, 2007 08:19 AM

So, go to the seminar. I went to a seminar last Thursday, and will probably go again this Thursday. My "Recruiter," offered me what he knew, and told me that I could learn more at the seminar. And as far as the handout, and why you could not keep it.. Is beyond me. I doubt that, even if they are hiding anything, it would be printed on a recruiting handout. Perhaps your recruiter had Downs..

Honestly, though, I'm not even in LTD. Their tactics seem a little off to me. Plus, Quick Star, or Quixtar, which is the program LTD uses, is said to be owned by Amway. I would not hold this information to heart, though, because it was an internet source that I read the Amway-Quixtar connection. and we all know that just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true.

Like I said, you best bet is to go to a seminar, and find out for yourself whether or not you think the company is for you. I'm still trying to decide, because after going through so many math classes.. It seems like their pay rates are kinda off.

Posted by: Mike on September 10, 2007 08:35 PM

Mike, Ugh...Down's is not a laughing matter.

Who's the slimy one here?

Posted by: Evan Donovan on September 10, 2007 11:06 PM

Mike- I won't be going to the seminar, as this happened a long time ago.

I think we are in agreement that there is something off about this company. Maybe my word choice was bad, but I still would rather have nothing to do with it.

I don't need more money, and I have a fulfilling hobby in this blog and my reading. It gains me nothing monetary (except for ads, which haven't pai out in two years of blogging), but I enjoy it.

Posted by: John on September 11, 2007 08:25 AM

I never said that the company is perfect; it's far from it, and is still a Pyramid. I've yet to decide whether or not it is worth the risk.

And the Company is starting to have an Amway effect.. Where they have expanded too far, too rapidly. Everybody already has a friend or relative in the buisness. The market is quickly becomming saturated with these people.. And I doubt it will be much longer before the grunts start to drop out because they can't make any money anymore.

Posted by: Mike on September 12, 2007 12:37 PM

Actually, there is a fundamental difference between an illegal pyramid and a network marketing business. Check out mlmlegal.com, and ftc.gov.

Quixtar is legal.

However, any opportunity can be abused by those who want to. Look at the used car business.

Disclosure:
We are not affiliated with LTD, but we have been IBOs with Quixtar for over five years, and have met some of the best people in our lives because of the business. Because of the business, my wife is now home from her job, and so am I. We continue to help other people change their financial future.

Don't be so quick to dismiss something, just because you read some nasty stuff about it on the internet.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Don't blame the vehicle because the salesperson was slimy.

Posted by: Bill Millio on September 16, 2007 02:06 PM

Nice try Bill - but please spare all of us your pathetic attempts to defend Quixtar. There is a direct connection to Larry Winters who is a scumbag and KNOWN theif. Sugar coat it all you want but if you put a silk hat on a pig, you still have a pig at the end of the day. Call it what you want Quixtar, Quick Star, Amway, LTD - its all a pyramid scheme and when the folks at the bottom figure out that there is no money to be made... it will all go away. I expect to see your name attached to another pyramid scheme. You should be ashamed of yourself for defending these low-lifes.

Posted by: Tom on September 19, 2007 09:10 AM

I'm not saying that LTD or Amway is the best in the world. but Don't all you people have JOBS. Can you at least have business'. DOn't know you that your 401ks (Canadian Pension Plan in Canada),will all be sucked dry and you'll be in poverty. Don't you want to give back to other communities by actually HAVING money. What kind of STUPID bill of goods did you guys all have. You absolutely make no sense to me. I'm not in Quixtar, but at least I have the sense to know that a job will get me nowhere. You ALL would be lucky enough to have someone tell you straight.

Posted by: T Q on October 3, 2007 03:02 PM

TQ raises a great point. Quit your job, and make 3% commission.

Posted by: Mike on October 3, 2007 07:19 PM

But I like my job. I've got no reason to quit. I'd be bored if I didn't work anyway.

Posted by: John on October 4, 2007 08:26 AM

My husband and I met a guy about our age at Chick-fil-a about 2 weeks ago. He seemed really nice and made the comment he and his wife were new to the area. We met the 2 of them for dinner a few nights later, still no mention of LTD. Then, after our dinner he called my husband and suggested they could use his help in their business. My husband does IT, so we assumed they needed help setting up a home network or something similar. We met them for coffee last night and they brought out the brochure. They really couldn't tell us much about their "business" but they want us to attend a seminar this Thursday night. I am SOOO glad I found this website. My husband and I were weary and thinking pyramid scheme when he kept mentioning things like mentors but they were such nice people I wouldn't have thought them to be ones involved in something like that.

Posted by: Melissa on October 9, 2007 09:20 AM

HA HA. Like everyone else I was approached by someone that was a bit of a distant friend for this "opportunity". There is a simple way to explain this all. One person decided one day to prey off the stupidity, greed and laziness that so many people are guilty of committing. They knew they can draw people in by telling everyone what they wish were true... by putting only a small number of hours in every week you can make large sums of money. OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE success comes from hard work and knowledge, nothing is given away. After paying your "dues" I will admit that if you put in the work, ruin relationships by pressuring in others to join your scam, you'll get some money in return but the profits will be so small that all your going to want to do is recruit more and more people and eventually your going to be so rapped up in this scam that it will occupy all of your time. And no one will ever make the money that the people at the top of the pyramid make. Do your research this is just another scam and while this may not be illegal it is UNETHICAL.

And please..PLEASE don't let anyone tell you that your wasting your time getting a college degree. Because while there are a few people that have been tremendously successful without going to college the statistics don't lie,
college education=success and the MOST of the successful people in the world have gone to college, worked hard, and practiced the business appropriate ethics.

Posted by: Dan on October 22, 2007 10:09 PM

TQ, you are out of touch - you sound just like those LTD people, "Look at your boss, do you want to be like him at THAT point in your career?" etc etc etc. LTD = Lazy, greedy, self serving cut-throats. If you dont buy any of the comments on this site, just go to one of the seminars and notice the pyramid shape that ALL of the diagragms represent. Remember hard work + education = success. Not presurring your friends into buying toothpaste. Give me a break. One last thing - if there is still some doubt in your mind... go to a financial planner and they will set you straight.

Posted by: Tom on October 23, 2007 01:13 PM

A lot of you are living in the past. I mean you actually think that going to school studying hard and getting good grades is good. but who wins the business owners. you can make a lot of money but taxes will rape you. i don't know what this quixtar/ quick star LTD stuff is but school is not helping anymore. Our lives are ruled by taxes and finances today and we don't save much after paying them off with our paychecks.

Posted by: PB on October 23, 2007 05:50 PM

I was approached last night and spent 30 minutes on the phone with a member looking at one of the "LTDteam" websites. A friend of a college friend was soliciting me and spoke about quixotic business plans without getting into any detail.

I was skeptical to begin with, but what put me over the edge was his elusiveness to questioning. I asked very specific questions at the end in an effort find out what he actually does to work with all the big companies he was name dropping, and vague responses followed. It seemed like most of his time is spent soliciting others to join (pyramid scheme), not actually doing the high minded concepts he was referencing.

Seems like a scam. I've got a real job to devote my time to.

Posted by: Mark on October 24, 2007 10:22 AM

I was approached last night and spent 30 minutes on the phone with a member looking at one of the "LTDteam" websites. A friend of a college friend was soliciting me and spoke about quixotic business plans without getting into any detail.

I was skeptical to begin with, but what put me over the edge was his elusiveness to questioning. I asked very specific questions at the end in an effort find out what he actually does to work with all the big companies he was name dropping, and vague responses followed. It seemed like most of his time is spent soliciting others to join (pyramid scheme), not actually doing the high minded concepts he was referencing.

Seems like a scam. I've got a real job to devote my time to.

Posted by: Mark on October 24, 2007 10:32 AM

PB - I see that you are a college drop out. Congrats on that. Sure Business Owners are going to make the most $$... do you actually think that they wouldn't - no, nobody does. I graduated college and prior to that I was tied to mediocre low paying jobs. Since I graduated, my income has quadrupled. Luck? NOPE! Hard Work, YUP! I am a homeowner and I have a few other interests, and I see money EVERY YEAR when Uncle Sugar tries to bite me in the butt. I claim 5 exemptions, BUT I itemize... you should try it some time. Oh, I forgot - you probably dont own a house - too bad!

BTW, the MINIMUM today is an undergraduate degree. If you dont see that you are in a dream world and probably PERFECT for LTD.

ENJOY!

Posted by: Tom on November 9, 2007 09:30 AM

You basically become a salesperson; or even walking advertisement. Selling computers at Best Buy, making 7%, is just as good as making whatever percentage you can work your way up to in LTD. LTD claims they are different from Corporate America, but it's all just a lie. You work at Best Buy, the store owner makes money. Working with LTD, your recruiter makes more money then you.

Posted by: Mike on November 13, 2007 10:09 PM

i was really into this business at one point for about a month or so. i had a neighbor across the street let me lsiten to numerous CDs and read a couple of chapters from a book.

the 'business' has expanded to Canada and Trinidad and Tobaggo. in downtown toronto they expanded from some rural area outside the city to the financial district of toronto.

the business is pyramid scheme, just in a regular pyramid the one at the top controls all the money.

You--> find 6, who find 4 who find 2. no matter how many of the ppl the (group of 4 find) they can find 20 people, your stil the one at the top making money. but the guy who found you is making even more money than you.

the guy who got my neighbor in the 'business', ive met him. he drives a cadillac and apparently makes 250K a year.

he spends 300 a month on this drink to get his PV.

the business works but in a way it is a scam id write more but im really lazy

the busines is a pyramid scheme but its not an illegal one. but the system works.

Posted by: james on November 20, 2007 06:17 PM

Thumbnail sketch; If you are supposed to recruit (or "help" as LTD puts it) friends and family to do this junk, and they do the same thing to four more people etc etc etc - that is a Pyramid Scheme ergo a scam! One other thing that was mentioned was that those of your freinds who dont get with LTD - you were told to ask yourself, are they truly your freinds. So a scam with a little brainwashing sprinkled on top for good measure.

Nice.

Posted by: Tom on November 28, 2007 12:05 PM

I have personally been involved with LTD for nearly a month and a half to 2 months now. I was extremely skeptical at first just like everyone else. I even did some research and found out that most of the internet sites claim it to be an illegal pyramid scam. Well I havnt spent a dime of my money yet...and I've had some of the most fun I've ever had in my life, the people are great, and its not really all about the money when you get involved with the right people. There are ways to make it work without losing any of your own money... it's just that anyone who doesn't realize that doesn't know much about how the business world works. And yes, it is pyramid based, but the guy on top doesn't necessarily always make the most money...if you would have actually looked at the real facts you guys would have noticed that. Don't just look at the negative opinions and accusations you find on the internet from people that have never even been involved in the business. Thank You.

Posted by: Juan Urdiales on December 1, 2007 02:44 PM

This is why I love this business. It's easy enough that anyone can do it, but is just hard enough to keep those that don't want it out. This tirade is inspirational for me as I hit the 4000 mark and realize that the two times I said "no", it was that third fateful time that I said yes that is now helping to secure my family's future.

I have to laugh when people talk about "researching" something and use the term "googling" in the same breath.

Second, learn what a pyramid scheme is before before calling it one.

Thanks for culling the sheep.

Do you mind if I use this as an example to my team? Didn’t think so. Some really good people need to know the ignorance that awaits them... and arm themselves with knowledge. Thanks.

Posted by: KG on December 11, 2007 03:20 PM

KG - you are rather rude. My personal problem wasn't the company itself, it was the way it was sold. And yes, LTD is a pyramid. It would have to be just based on the info from the employee.

Posted by: John on December 11, 2007 03:37 PM

3 words for you: hook, line, and sinker - well good luck with this "opportunity" you all have. If anyone envolved doesn't think that the guy at the top is making all the $$, your nuts! KG, you can use whatever you want as an example - I am sure that before long, like my coworker, you will be emptying your 401K and throwing all kinds of jack at this "opportunity". Enjoy all the team mates and freinds that have you've discovered here.

Posted by: tom on January 14, 2008 12:21 PM

I was approached in a mall by a guy. I did an "interview" over the phone, and I dealt with this guy for a month. After a month, I still had practically no idea what this company did. Last night, I went to their meeting interested in a data transfer job. The speech the guy gave us made me suspicious when, after about 30 minutes, he had said almost nothing about the company itself.

About 45 minutes into it, the guy literally drew a pyramid of "team building" on a white board. A few minutes after that, he said to get in was about $200.

I felt so stupid for even showing up, because I thought it was for a data transfer company. WAY WRONG.

I'm not using my family in anybody's business, as was suggested. Good God. And yeah, the people didn't out and out say it was a Christian ministry or something, but they kept using the word "blessed" which made me think it was a Christian pyramid scheme.

Posted by: Kent on January 16, 2008 08:22 AM

I was targeted too, and I'm beginning to wonder if those tapes these people buy tell them to specifically target couples because the way that we were approached follows this exactly. Initial "chance" meeting, 15 minute vague pamphlet-assisted spiel (full of name-dropping and question dodging), and attempted to sign us up for 1 hour seminar.

Initially the guy made it seem like his company was doing promotional work for energy drinks at colleges and stuff (after learning we both are still in school). Then he shows up and started educating us on business and I knew it wasn't anything like what he had said.

When they left, I went straight to the computer and plugged in "LTD pyramid scheme", and then everything I needed to see was right there.

I especially love how the company is named "LTD" (leadership team development). It's the most vague name possible, and virtually un-findable since there are hundreds if not thousands of European companies who include LTD (acronym for "limited") into their name. Not to mention the hundreds if not thousands of legitimate leadership training development workshops for real business managers.

What really gave away that this is a POS company is when I flat out asked him "Is this going to cost us anything because if so, we're not interested" to which he replied "This wont cost anything, really. Its not like you need a set amount of money in the bank to get started or anything. Oh, by the way, when you get to the entrance of the seminar, DO NOT pay the ladies in the front any money, just tell them your our guests...". Lulz

Posted by: Ricky on February 2, 2008 01:51 PM


You know...I was reading all these blogs about LTD and how its a scam and all this stuff and I almost got angry but then I stoped my self and realiced that they simply dont know what they dont know! I'm a member of LTD and our main team is based in Lake Mary Florida. I've been part of the team for about a year and I've yet to see someone who followed the mentorship properly and stayed consistent and didnt quit who hasnt had succes..."so you know a friend who tried it and didnt work!" Well..I know a friend who signed up at a local gym and actually got fatter! Was it the gym's fault that he didnt get the right results, therefore the gym doesnt work and its a scam, or was it his fault because he rarely ever showed up and when he did he didnt listen to his trainer because some how he thought he knew better than the trainer??? There's a very good reason why God gave us 2 ears and one mouth. May be if we learn to use them in that same ration we can actually learn something. I'm sure you all know that the internet is like a bathroom wall at times. You can write whatever you want about who ever you want, wether its true or not without anyone ever knowing who posted it. Do you think if I where to scam someone I would tell him where to find me every week? No statue has ever been raised to a critic. Only people with vision and a spine have ever acomplish anything great in history. Ltd has been around for 27 years...no scam lasts that long. You can fool some people sometimes but you cant fool all the time. May be you DONT know everything. First, it is an oportunity...NOT a get rich quick thing, it will take work, time, and education. Thats why they have training materials wich are more important than you can even imagine. Second, it is not a cult, its a business in wich through working together as a team we achieve success. I've never seen a self serving, selfish person ever have succes, you have to be jenuine. Isnt it funny how its totally normall for people to get exited about a sport, paint their faces take off their shirts to selebrate an event that will not empower them or their family in any way unless they are the ones with the million dollar contract yet when some one gets exited about an oportunity, a cause and a team they can actually win in, people say thats a cult, unethical etc. Let me tell you wats unethical...You work for a company in wich you do the best job you can. You are there on time, you do your job well and you work hard, and you get along with everybody. Your boss is in vacation somewhere making more money from your own efforts than you are, he didn even train you in your field so you could perform and you think nothing of it. Thats exactly what LTD is not. My sponsor spent more money in my business when I got started than I did. He taught me how to build it among many other things about life. He showed me it works by example. Never lied to me. He did not sugar coat the oportunity as if I was going to be rich by next week. I got started, stayed steady, listened to my mentors and life coaches, didnt quit and I believe its the best choice I've ever made. Believe whatever you want, but at least find the real facts first.

Posted by: Jonathan on February 9, 2008 11:52 PM

To all the cynics, and ones that may believe LTD and Quixtar is a scam. If all you can think of is buying materialistic items, self indulgence, and power with the earning potential in this business then we don't want you.

You can't think of a charitable foundation that you can donate you new found wealth with? You can't see yourself helping others in need? How can you help others if you can't help yourself?. Obviously some of you are selfish with comments like "I have enough money" "i already have hobbies" all you can do is think of yourself? good, you don't need you to be rich! We hate Rich greedy people. Who liked ebenezer scrooge? nobody! Rich Greedy guy.

This business has given me the ebility to empower others, build new relationships and change lives. Pyramids are illegal the FTC has evaluated quixtar as a legit business. The real pyramids are the ones we wake up to everymorning.

John says "Right, but in a well run corporation, the senior execs are not living off the hard work of the grunts. The grunts fulfill vital roles, freeing up the execs to make the big decision that benefit everybody."

Look whos on TOP the CEO's whos making them Rich? You the Grunt! You'll never make more than the CEO you know why becasue your the Grunt making the CEO rich. Duh!

Who's the pyramid now? Corporations are Your on the bottom their on the Top and you'll never make more than them.

With this business you can. You can exceed the person who sponsored you and even the ones that sponsored your sponsor. Quixtar is not a Pyramid. LTD is a support team to help you drive your business. every Corpporation has it's products and then training for it's employees to drive business. Only with Quixtar and LTD unlike a traditional Corporation, you are able to make more than the CEO!

Then you will be empowered to help others and the community. You can't help somebody being broke or in debt can you?

Any questions please feel free to contact me i'll be happy to answer all your questions kosolproductions@yahoo.com

Have a great day and God Bless

Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs 10:4


Posted by: Kosol on March 4, 2008 12:13 AM

I recently attended this hour workgroup/seminar for LTD and Quixtar. Within 10 minutes of this I became aware this was a blatant pyramid scheme.

The problem I had is that I was misled by the person who approached me with this concept. This person led me to believe it was more like a normal job opportunity.

It is true, many forms of businesses, corporations, and companies follow a similar structure to pyramid schemes. However pyramid schemes offer a service that is not necessary at all. It is simply a marketing plan to feed off of greed and ultimately make more money for the companies involved. The problem I have with them is that they mislead and pray on the less intelligent population.

If your company and ideas are so ground breaking and successful you'd let people keep the brochures.

It's really hard to believe that some people truly thing this is legit.


Posted by: Steven on March 12, 2008 02:09 AM

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."
-Thomas Edison

You want a brochure take one I'll send you one!!! I have plenty!! The FTC has already proved us as being legit. We work with major companies: Curcuit City, Office Depot, Bass Pro Shop, Disney Online, Sony, JVC just to name a few. Would these companies really put their name on the line for an illegal pyramid scheme?
It's hard to beleive people wouldn't think this is legit!

This is Business that takes work like any other business this is not a get rich quick business.

visit www.psuchemarketing.ltdteam.com enter password guest

Posted by: Kosol on March 12, 2008 04:31 AM

correction in spelling: Circuit City

Posted by: Kosol on March 12, 2008 04:33 AM

A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, usually without any product or service being delivered. It has been known to come under many guises. Some famous examples including the massive Albanian Pyramid Schemes of 1996[1] were technically not Pyramid schemes but Ponzi schemes.

The essential idea behind each scam is that the individual makes only one payment, but is promised to somehow receive exponential benefits from other people as a reward. A common example might be an offer that, for a fee, allows the victim to sell the same offer to other people, or receive bonuses through other people they refer. Each sale includes a fee to the original seller.

Clearly, the flaw is that there is no end benefit; the money simply travels up the chain, and only the originator (or at best a very few) wins in swindling his followers. Of course, the people in the worst situation are the ones at the bottom of the pyramid: those who subscribed to the plan, but were not able to recruit any followers themselves. To embellish the act, most such scams will have fake referrals, testimonials, and information.

You all need the facts of what a real pyrimad scheme is and that is discribed above. And it isn't Quixtar or LTD. Quixtar only pays you on volume you can creat. LTD helps you in learning to creat volume, leadership,& business owner mentality for your business to survive long term.

Quixtar offers individuals the opportunity to have a business of their own, supported by world-class products and infrastructure and Quixtar's Independent Business Owner Compensation Plan, which rewards them for sales resulting from their efforts.

Quixtar’s proven Independent Business Owner Compensation Plan enables IBOs to earn income on business volume resulting from their efforts. Independent Business Owners earned $370.1 million in bonuses and incentives in fiscal 2006.

www.thisbiznow.com & QuixtarFacts.com Make sure you all get the real facts before you open your mouth.

IBOs build businesses that allow them to earn income based on sales made at www.quixtar.com resulting from their efforts. To launch a Quixtar business, individuals must register with an existing IBO.

In Quixtar, long-term success depends on helping the next person. In consulting, everyone you train ends up your competitor. With Quixtar, we coach and train people on how to make their businesses work.” — Don Freeze, International Consultant

“This business isn't about getting rich quick. It's a process of creating spiritual, physical, mental, and financial strength through personal growth and investment in people over time.” — James Yanney, Surgeon

LTD is Thier to help poeple that want to own their own business, succeed. Plain and simple.

Quixtar is bbb appovered, d&b approved, ftc approved, & surpreme court approved.

Posted by: dustin on March 16, 2008 03:56 PM

I am an IBO and i am only 20 years old. I thought this was a scam when i first saw it, but i stuck around to see what was up. I waited a couple of weeks and got to know the people in the business team before making any decisions. Never once was i pressured into starting my own IBOship and the other business owners were regualr, down to earth people. Not some crazy whackos trying to steal my money. It only cost me and my girlfriend $144 to start up our business and in our first month have made that all back. Before you go writing something off as a scam you should know more about it. I'm not saying start your own business to find out if it is a scam or not. I'm saying get around the people in the business team and see how they really are. That was all we needed to see this was a good move.

Posted by: Corey Puckey on March 17, 2008 02:27 PM

Dustin,

Nice sales pitch. Let me know how it feels when the people you are bilking get fed up with the scam and get irritated with you for taking their time and money. Now I know you are a very important person and your "business" is very impressive but I have to say there are a ton of other ways to make money without pissing people off by taking their time and money. You and your group should be ashamed of yourselves.

Posted by: Bill on March 18, 2008 01:00 AM

Corey, you made a WHOPPING $144 back? WOW!!! That's great! There are people who make that much in crushing cans! Quixtar IS a pyramid, LTD is too, per the association with Quixtar. Oh, sorry officer, I know I "hang out" with drug dealers, but I am not one myself. Get the picture? Just wait, if they haven't started in with the books - they will soon. THAT is where they make the money off of folks who think there is still a free lunch out there. The books, the seminars, etc. if you read the expose piece that NBC did on these "businesses" you will see that you are being set up for a fall. Just go to college and stop pestering people with selling them stuff that they can get at Target for cheaper, people will just be alienated and stay away from you. One last thing - if this is such a GREAT opportunity, why-oh-why do you feel the need to "recruit" from grocery stores, Target stores, Malls etc? The only other "business-people" who pedal their goods at such locations generally get arrested for "solicitation" - get it now?

Posted by: Tom Weatherford on March 20, 2008 12:49 PM

Tom continue to crush cans and work for the rest of your life!! Great for you. Do I knock the squeegy out your hand while your working. Would someone want to continue to pick up cans for the rest of their lives. Business can take over two years before even turning a profit Next month Cory will have a profit when he gets paid for doing what he already does. Which is shopping! sounds a lot better than picking up cans. Just because you failed in your endevors, Don't be like all the crabs in the bucket by pulling the other person down when he's trying to get out. Misery loves company. If I take advice from a bum then i'll be a bum, if I take advice from someone like Donald trump and Robert Kiyosaki who promotes our business, then I will be successful. Take this advice Tom, The Government is broke and in debt who do you expect to pay for your retirement? Hopefuly your not depending on your job. By the way we don't solicite. You would know if your weren't so close minded. But I'm sure that's what college has taught you. Work for somebody else help them get rich while you get the tips. Get the Picture? Get it now?

Posted by: Kosol on March 23, 2008 11:25 PM

i am also apart of ltd/quixstar and it is the best thing that has ever happened to me.... now think about this tom you say and i quote "stop pestering people with selling them stuff that they can get at Target for cheaper" first of all the person that recruited me never ever pestered me in fact it took me a couple of months to make my decision and you are NOT required to go every single meeting.... second of all when you leave target what do you get when you leave???? all you get is a receipt and a thank you for your business.... well with quixstar you actually can get paid for the same stuff you get a target... see what this business is about is financial freedom and just like any business or job in order to make money you have to put work into it and its not HARD WORK all this business asks of you is 2-15 hours a week.... thats it.... buy stuff and tell your friends/people you know and you get paid.... how wonderful is that

Posted by: AZ on March 24, 2008 12:44 AM

Im sorry to all but, LTD is a very LEGIT and LEGAL! Franchises were thought to be illegal when they first started, but hey Mcdonalds seems to be doing fine.. And EVERYONE needs to watch how the word "pyramid" is used. Is it structured in a pyramind fashion? yes. But think! So is your Government, Catholic Church, Family Tree, Corporation, etc. Anything structured has a "pyramid" structure. Before anyone goes and says its a scam, take a look somewhere else than a random blog of someone who didnt even attempt to make it work. How many "legal" businesses fail within the first ten years? 90% Read books, attend the full process and find out for yourself!

Posted by: Andrew on April 1, 2008 03:26 AM

whoa! thanks everyone...some guy from LTD just came up to me today at Krogers, while i was on break and gave me his business card...his name is Willie DeShields. i figured it was a scam but i thought i would look it up online since he was thrown out of our store for solicitation. yeah...im definitely not an advisor for this. thanks!

Posted by: Jannah on April 6, 2008 11:11 PM

You seem like a well educated and intelligent person, however your 'research' does not reflect that. Perhaps you should consider 'researching' dictionary.com and figuring out what a pyramid really is, i bet you just heard that word somewhere and just started using it with out really knowing what it meant. As a teacher you should know the value of objective thinking, here is a tip: try it.

Posted by: Monica on April 7, 2008 05:26 PM

LTD - We're going 100,000 strong with or without the critics. I have met many people in this business, and they all would do back flips in order to help me with anything. Oh, but I forgot...they push books. I almost forgot about that. God save us from actually having to learn something in our lives. Guys on the team: remember that you are a product of the people with which you associate and the books you read. Those people whom bash our business obviously don't -
associate with the caliber of people whom are active and lead people in this venture. And for the guys whom get a couple pages into the books and listen to one or two CD's and are convinced they have this team figured out: The people whom contacted you have done you an injustice by not smacking you with a phone book. The moral of the story is that we need nay sayers. We need people to work in factories and to pick up our trash. Please don't think that I'm disrespecting these people, I respect the blue collar workers just as much as every double diamond that I listened to this weekend in Louisville. The Difference: I want my children and wife to not have to worry about where there food is going to come from if I get laid off in the winter. I want better for my family.
--------------------FREEDOM-----------------------

Posted by: Mike on April 8, 2008 12:03 AM

It is funny to think that there are so many people who are so afraid to be different and so afraid to be wealthy that they would try to hinder everyone else's ability to try something new. I have one suggestion to all of you who condemn "the business" - look in the mirror. It is the same people who look in the mirror everyday at the crack of dawn that see tired and cranky souls with horrible parenting skills and failed marriages that put the "anti-LTD" blogs up in the first place. I feel sorry for you, because one thing that I have learned from being in the business is how to feel good about myself and how to be part of a wealth-mentality building team. Since I first entered the business, my relationship has flourished, my headaches have vanished, and I have learned how to be a better person and stop being in my own way. If this is a scam, I am so glad that I found it. Oh and PS - If this business were a scam, why are thousands of huge name-brand companies affiliated with it? Take a hint - stop listening to what your poor and sad teachers and professors taught you. They are where they are today because of their ignorance and refusal to grow.

Posted by: Chelsea on April 9, 2008 07:40 PM

From a former Amway distributor/IBO/whatever they call themselves now... Quixtar is Amway. I remember back in the early 90's when talk of this new organization started to make it's way around the Amway circles. Quixtar was going to be the new best thing. Quixtar was going to be the Internet version of Amway. Anyway, THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MAKE ANY MONEY IN QUIXTAR/AMWAY, ARE THE PEOPLE WHO SELL THE BOOKS/TAPES. Period.

This blog was a good read.

I most enjoyed the comments by Mike. Funny how he went from curious encouragement to an all out defensive propaganda spokeshole. He ended his last post with "--------------------FREEDOM-----------------------" Ask anybody who was ever in Amway about that word. Mike drank the Koolaid and went back for seconds.

One final thought. Those of you who saw the business plan on a whitebord or a notepad. Did the guy draw circles? I'm sure he did. That's AMWAY.

Posted by: Scott on April 11, 2008 03:39 AM

Just getting up and running with Quixtar and LTD after knowing about the business for a while now. I've looked into other things but as for something I can do in my spare time outside of the responsibilities of work this is it. I'm looking forward to the challenge and building a big customer base and network. Can’t wait until the end of the year to see how far I’m along.

Posted by: Josh on April 11, 2008 06:59 PM

Just some personal observations: I was in AMWAY when the company was rolling out Quixtar. I was actually sponsored by Rick Winters, Larry's brother. I never saw anything to make me believe that they were dishonest, in fact quite the opposite. The little I've heard about Larry's tax issues probably come from the IRS disallowing somethings that Amway/Quixtar distributors feel should be deductible. Oh, well, I'm still waiting to see if I'll be audited for the sale of my lumber company two years ago, and we did everything with legal counsel and under the supervision of a CPA.

The only thing that I would argue with about the business model that this company uses is that at first it looks easy. Speaking from experience, NO personally owned business is easy, period. Success in running a business requires much more work than a normal job, but also provides more rewards. That being said, there's something to be said for working a 40 hour week and leaving your job at work.

Good luck to everyone!

Posted by: Mike G. on April 15, 2008 10:47 AM

Mike G. made some good points - and I agree with him totally, except for one thing. Every business has dishonest people - AMWAY/QUIXTAR is full of them. If you are considering this "opportunity", take the time to look up QUIXTAR, specifically the Dateline NBC report about it. I know that the AMWAY/QUIXTAR pack of attorneys and spokesholes have fired back about this report, but watch the report and decide for yourself.

Also, check out this first hand account of how deceptive and destructive this group can be. The book is call Merchants of Deception. The book is available for free download at:
http://www.merchantsofdeception.com

I'll close by saying again, the only people that make money in these ventures are the people that sale the motivational books and tapes.

Posted by: Scott on April 15, 2008 05:22 PM

OK, so this business has been around for 27 years... Great! So it's legit... Super! One thing you supporters don't realize is that all of those big name companies that you supposedly supply already have contracts drafted and don't need you to sell them any products. Your only "job" (if you can actually call it that), is to find like-minded individuals who are easily persuaded by the possibility of raking in a $70-250k/year salary for doing nothing but playing video games all day.

Your so-called percentage that you receive is split up so much by the time it hits the top that you see jack when it's all said and done.

Chew on this... Let's just say that you recruit everybody in the world? How are you going to get paid? When I went to a little-known place called "college," I was taught something called "market saturation." You will inevitably reach a cap in your earning potential when nobody else signs up.

I believe somebody mentioned the fact that MLM's and Pyramid structured business models cannot sustain, and that's a fact. Just because you've been around for 27 years doesn't make your company great or more importantly, reputable. It just means that 27 years ago one greedy, smooth-talking person with some corporate contacts, brought in six friends, who brought in their friends, who brought in theirs and so on (and let's not leave out the $200 entry fee for this "special" little club, or even the "quality" training that you could never find in a classroom)... Basically, the whole company of friends just got bigger until they were forced to talk to people on the streets. This is only because their payday was starting to level off.

I for one would never work for a company that takes anybody off the street. If this was truly a quality company, they would have a screening process to make sure people were qualified for the job... Oh wait, that's right! Your only requirement is that you have to pay LTD $200 (that would just put my mind at ease right away)! Personally, I have higher aspirations in life than jumping on a bandwagon and living off the gullibility of the greater population.

So, the next time one of these people approach you at a local fast food joint and want to talk shop... Remember this: they no longer see a person - just somebody else they can brainwash into giving them money.

BTW: I just wanted to throw out a few random observations/questions...

1. Why don't any of you supporters mention how much you make? Is it really that impressive (or just that embarrassing)?

2. How many people enrolled in this program, use this as their primary source of income (and have no other job or spousal support)?

3. This one goes out to Mike... I find it hilarious that you compare this to working at Best Buy... Last time I checked, you still took home a paycheck when you didn't sell a computer at Best Buy... What happens when you don't rope in some more cattle to do your legwork? Do you still get a base pay for the time you put in?


*****I WILL LEAVE WITH THIS*****


Although this cannot be called a scheme, you must all realize that this is not a secure method to create and more importantly, sustain wealth. Although it's possible to make money, do the math and add up just how many people you would have to recruit and adjust the percentage based on how low on the pyramid you are (it's pretty weak).

The people working for LTD will obviously be nice, friendly, and willing to help you out. Don't be fooled by this - just as a stripper will always act like she's interested in what you say... Why? Because it's their job, and people won't just hand over $200 to somebody who disrespects them.

These "legitimate" business people will prey on your emotions, your desire to provide a better life for your children, and your drive to succeed.

I'm not trying to be a hater, I just felt compelled to share the facts...

Posted by: Aaron on April 19, 2008 02:52 AM

Great post Aaron!

And to Mike, here's a book for you to read:

Merchants of Deception

Available for FREE (sorry, no PV/BV for this one) at: http://www.merchantsofdeception.com

A real stroy by a real AMWAY/QUIXTAR IBO.

I know I mentioned it in an earlier post, but after reading your post again I felt compelled to remind you of it.

And finally for Chelsea, pass the Kool-aid.

Posted by: Scott on April 21, 2008 02:44 PM

LTD is bogus!! I have been approached three times in the past year by Pyramid Scheme pawns who think that they will somehow rise to the top by "buying stuff they already need" part time!

I actually went to one of their brainwashing parties, where a "respected leader in the community" who graduated from West Point spoke of the riches he made working part time. I was surrounded by teachers, and blue collar workers who were minutes away from being worked by the system...

Look people, if you have two hundred dollars lying around and you want to make money, invest in stocks. Don't join the Community College dropouts who think that they can climb out of the middle class simply by working part time and recruiting their friends to buy products from an online website that gives you "points" for buying stuff!

Go to college, get a job with a legit company that has a 401k-match program and you won't have to worry about having enough for retirement! You're not going to buy a mansion and a yacht from the money you made recruiting others!

Posted by: Craig on April 23, 2008 03:02 PM

i school here at ODU and got approached by a nice sadly mistakened russian girl in my class. how do i tell her that her boyfriend is a piece of work and she's been had. thank god i know better!

Posted by: patrick on April 24, 2008 07:44 PM

I'm a personal IBO (independent business owner) with Quixtar. I'm going to go over a few questions that everyone on here wants to know the answers too.

Is it a scam or pyramid? Not even close.. And here's why.

1)Several Fortune 500 Companies work with us to sell products. Do you honestly think Fortune 500 Companies would risk there company name to work with some unethical business. No Way, they would go bankrupt by disobeying the law!
Is it a pyramid scheme? Ask yourself this, are you worth more than you honestly get paid? Of course man! In addition too, all the hassle and crap you take from your boss! IN EVERY BUSINESS.. the CEO gets paid the most, then the VP, then the mananger and so forth (even though, the higher up, usually is less work). THAT LOOKS LIKE A PYRAMID! Quixtar gives a chance for YOU to make more money than the guy higher than you. AND THATS FAIR. Everyone deserves an equal oppurtunity.

Last thing. 80% of multi-millionairs own there own business. 10% inherit it. 10% are doctors, lawyers, etc.
It cost $1,000,000 dollars to start a McDonalds, a proven business system. Follow the instructions, and its your business.
It cost about $160 dollars to start your Quixtar business.

A Quixtar business owner made a little over $100 a month.
A independent business owner (not Quixtar) made just $5 a month.

Some people may try to recruit you, but there not supposed too. They should just present the oppurtunity to you... its a good fit for some, and not for others.

Posted by: Ross on May 2, 2008 01:31 AM

Guys and Gals, if you honestly put in the hard work... You will be successful. Many people dont want to put in the hard work.

$100 is the average. There are lots and lots of people that just dont put in the hard work.

About all the critcism, anything successful and known is going to have criticism come along with it. Every President, nearly every well-known actor or athlete. Its the way it is.

Posted by: Ross on May 2, 2008 01:38 AM

I am not a member of the LTD or Quixtar group. I also was approached by a member of LTD last week. I attended one of their seminars. I also had the follow up meeting with one of the sponsors. Now I am a very skeptical person by nature. I have also previously been involved in a pyramid scam. Back then I was ignorant and unaware such scams existed. Now that I am aware and I have been invited to join another venture that has similarities to a pyramid scan, I in my limited capacity, have tried to look at as many angles as possible when it comes to this venture. And in the end it has come down to this…

In reading these blogs, the one thing I have found interesting is that no one can say from personal experience that they have been part of the LTD system for a period longer than 3 months and have actually regretted getting involved. We have all been lucky enough to either to reach the pearly gates and decide not to enter…or to have entered and feel blessed by the opportunity.

Now in any business, some form of start up capital is required. So I have no problem with an initial fee of $200. And again in any business starting up is always one of, if not the hardest part. From what little I gathered…every effort is made to assist you with your start up. And every effort is made to provide you with the necessary training to make you independent of the person that recruited you.

They say, behind every great fortune, there is a great crime. The whole idea behind considering such an enterprise is to make the fortune. The only great crime here may be that someone who should have known better, got involved in something they should not have. Those of you who feel you are too righteous to take up such an opportunity…remember that God only helps those that help themselves. Lastly, I don’t believe anyone is trying to trick you into doing anything. Again from what I gather, they try to tell you as much about what you will have to do during their follow up meetings. Remember, how well you do in your business depends entirely upon how much time you are willing to put into it.

Posted by: Laddy on May 4, 2008 08:05 PM

Ross, perhaps you ought to go back to College and retake ENG-100, your grammar is horrendous! 100$/mo is ridiculous... but if that is how you all gauge success, then you are successful! WOW, where do I sign up to make my 100$ every 30 days? So let me get this straight, I pester my friends to buy a bunch of stuff that they can get at Target/Wally-World for cheaper and I can average 100$/mo... sounds like a winner! There is a very good quote that many of the LTD folks need to listen to and absorb, "The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it!"

Posted by: Tom on May 5, 2008 12:45 PM

Ross, a Quixtar IBO, made some good points. He said that "A Quixtar business owner made a little over $100 a month." This could very well be a true statement. I was an AMWAY (Quixtar) IBO for three years, and I know that this level of income can be achieved. If $100 a month sounds good to you, sign up!

Ross continues, "Guys and Gals, if you honestly put in the hard work... You will be successful. Many people dont want to put in the hard work." Define successful. $100 a month? Too good to be true? Beleive it! Sign up!

Like I said, Ross makes some good points.

Here are a few points I would like to add (remember, I was an IBO): You CAN make a LITTLE money on the side with this "business opportunity". More than 99.9% of you that sign up for this business will NEVER make the millions promised by your upline - unless you are very charismatic, don't mind lying to people, and know how to sell books and tapes. My sponsor used to tell me to "fake it until you make it". That was the beginning of his descent into the depths of the AMWAY/QUIXTAR - WWDB (World Wide Dream Builders) self deception. He bought a car he could not afford just to give the impression of success. For a while I beleived it too, until I started to ask questions. That is when he turned on me. I soon realized that he was rising in the AMWAY/QUIXTAR cirles because of his association with the "tools" business. The people that sell the books and tapes are the ONLY ones that make LARGE amounts of money. EVERYONE IN QUIXTAR CANNOT BE MILLIONAIRES. There is only ONE Bill Britt (he OWNED the plant that produced the "motivational" tapes and CDs for World Wide Dream Builders/Stealers). If you still want to be part of this organization, good luck. Just don't get suckered in by the promise of great wealth for little work. Don't let talk of seeing you "on the beaches of the world" cripple your critical thinking skills. The people that you see idolized at open and second look meetings are not getting rich by selling products, they are getting rich by selling you a dream. It's a dream that is continually reinforced by a constant diet of books and CDs. One last thing, don't quit your day job. You cannot live on $100 a month!

Posted by: Rob on May 5, 2008 07:53 PM

Haha, wow! Thanks for everyone's input. I have been approached by TWO "friends" from Quixstar, and another old friend recommended me to LTD. Here's the question... WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEING SOLD. In any business, there is a buyer and a customer (forget about the middleman part for now). If I have something I want to sell, then I need to find someone who wants my product/service. After reading the above, both Quixstar and LTD seem to create a self-supporting community that is the Supplier, Middleman, AND the Customer! Of course it's bound to work with an input of 4 hours/week, attending meetings, bringing your friends/family into the mix, but WHEN DOES IT STOP?
If you want to be on top, think of a NEW product, INVENT, go back to books and learn something that people need or that could make life easier or more fun. No, instead, we want enough income so that we can work less, have fun, and just LIVE. God created every one of us for something that we would be AWESOME at doing and will love while doing it. Get down on your knees, recheck your priorities, and seek growth, not stagnation as the aforementioned companies seem to lead to.
Peace, Grace, and Love to you all,
Stefan

Posted by: Stefanovich on May 15, 2008 06:33 PM

I find it very humorous that everyone is either for or against Quixtar (I guess that’s why it’s a blog, my bad). I am an IBO that make more that 3% and $100 per month. For those that say it is a bad deal, what other options do we Americans have to start our own businesses with a small amount of startup capital? And I don’t mean lawn care! I don’t know about anyone else, but working 40-60 hrs a week for only 40hrs of pay in the college dream of “salaried” is not my deal!! The more you make the more Uncle Sam takes! And since my family can’t live on less than $900 per month from www.ssa.gov if it is around when I’m old enough to receive it in 30+ years, what is a man to do for his family? My 401K is losing money…..and yours? It’s really hard to help family/people financially when you live paycheck – to – paycheck! I personally don’t like Hyundai or Kia, financial debt and a 2000sf house isn’t big enough for my family! Quixtar offers grade A products and because it is a legit business registered with the Better Business Bureau (if people even look at that anymore, thanks Google!), I get to deduct legally any business expenses ($15K last year)!

So, my question is to anyone…If there is a legal business opportunity out there that an already busy family man can start AND run for less than $300 per month (dang gas is high!) and have the potential to make more than any college degree income, PLEASE LET ME KNOW! I will Google it, “check it out” and upon its legitimacy with my friends who make no more than I do (that’s why they are my friends, makes since right), I will drop Quixtar like a bad habit and get into that business!!

Holla!
www.thisbiznow.com

Posted by: Profitable-IBO on May 22, 2008 02:52 PM

Hey Profitable-IBO,

You said "The more you make the more Uncle Sam takes!" This is true of ANY business. Are you planning on being "FREE" as a result of this business? How long have you been showing the plan? How much of that $15K write-off was spent on books, tapes, and CDs? Can you actually write-off motivational media?

Just curious.

Posted by: Rob on May 22, 2008 03:08 PM

Hey Rob,

Yeah, Uncle Sam takes our dollars, but being a business owner has special benefits! Tax deductions! There are certain deductions that even home based businesses can take advantage of. Just like a doctor that has a private practice, he has certain classes and training materials that he needs to stay current and profitable. The books and CDs ($1100 of the $15K) are what we use to train ourselves in the business. Since Quixtar/LTD is tailored for the busy professional, we have CDs/MP3s to listen to at your convenience instead of sitting in a classroom (like college). You are not required what so ever to buy the training materials. But like college, if you want to do well in the classes, it’s in your best interest to purchase the class materials. That does not mean throw common sense out the window! If your mentor suggests some training materials to you, it’s cool to ask the question “Why”. Deductions cover everything from car mileage to samples given out to travel expenses for conferences you qualify for, etc. There are books and talk to you tax preparer. Documentation is key!

My wife and I have been in for 2yrs. The first year and a half were ok, but we were not following the plan or our mentor. Thus, little money. But we saw the potential and others succeeding and making money. For the last six months, things have been growing, team and money. Changes to less stressful jobs have lead to more mental time to focus on our business. Currently make a few hundred bucks a month with new people joining the team first week of June. I am grateful that my sponsor contacted me, because I was looking for something better at the time, and this is it!

And “Freedom” to me is a state of mind. If you have a household income of $30K/yr at 40hrs per week and you make a steady $30K/yr with Quixtar at 15 to 20hrs/wk and you want to quit your job…..are you FREE?! Not that I would recommend that to anyone, but you would be an Independent Business Owner (IBO) to do what you want. If you have a total of $200K in debt (house, cars, student loans, credit cards, etc.) and pay it all off with the extra income generated from your business in a lot less than you every dreamed of….pay cash from then on, are you now FREE?! Freedom depends on what your personal goals are. I have met some people that really like there jobs because they help people, and that’s cool! Give the money to charity (which is a tax write off too!)

Sorry for the long answer.

Posted by: Profitable-IBO on May 31, 2008 02:11 PM

Hey ya'll,

I work in an environment where I have access to how my 401K is behaving. I monitor it, I do research - it's my future, I am going to make sure it is doing it's best - talk to a financial planner for Pete's sake! I used to work for SSA, that money you get is supposed to be a SUPPLIMENT not the money you are supposed to rely on. Are you kidding me? Is anyone THAT naive? Is THAT one of the lines of #%&$ that is being pushed? WOW, talk about hook, line, and sinker! If you are living paycheck to paycheck - here is a clue, go to/back to college for a different degre; there are options, oh wait... that requires that darned hard work thing again. Hey man, that's cool, go ahead and get crazy with Quixtar I am sure that WHOPPING $200/mo for all of your free time is well worth it!

Posted by: Tom on June 3, 2008 03:37 PM

For the record, I am pursuing a B.S. in civil engineering at Virginia Tech. I'm going into my fifth and final year and I'm pumped about getting some job offers starting in the next couple months. It's about time for this education to pay off. Go Hokies!!!

This past Monday I experienced the LTD spill!!WOW!? I was contacted via phone the night before from a person I had just met after moving into the Richmond, VA area which is where I am currently residing for my summer internship. My contact sounded very excited about talking to me about this LTD opportunity and tried to reel me in by telling me that they had been talking to their mentors about me. (They were probably strategizing on how to suck me in as I was merely fresh bait). My contact had previously showed me videos online of these "mentors" and they were clips of people like Larry Winters persistently saying "LTD, living the dream" at baseball games and random events.

On the phone I asked my contact, "This isn't some type of pyramid scheme is it?" Their response,"No, but I would see why you would think that." I am now thinking what?? I just threw that out there, what grounds do I have other than utter skepticism to believe that LTD is a pyramid scheme. You can draw your own conclusion from that response. Needless to say, after the meeting the next day with my contact, that turned out to be the most direct answer I got about anything regarding LTD. And, those concepts they go over in the brochure, WOW, talk about innovative. I sketched the active/passive diagram in my 6 year old dreams. Here's a link http://www.ltdteam.com/guest/ownership.asp

My contact asked me at the end of the spill if I connected on any "concepts", in other words am I a living breathing human being with an attention span of 10 minutes. I guess those are the caliber people LTD targets. I felt personally insulted more than anything out of this whole ordeal, from someone I thought was my friend, being new in the area and all. This chimes in with several previous posts about this similar activity from LTD scamsmen.

Fake friendship = Fake business models (pyramids) = invisible Christian foundation = LTD

Yeah LTD utilizes a way of earning residual income through their business system, aka, pyramid scheme. And just as the McDonalds franchise won't fail if one branch goes bankrupt, will Larry Winters not shop chanting, "Living The Dream" if you go bankrupt.

I almost feel like this Christianity pillar that is apparently a vital part of the integrated business model they use is merely a way to keep the business afloat so that it isn't found to be the outright pyramid scheme that it is. With myself being a Christian, I would never carry myself the way that the person targeting me did. After I rejected the invitation to the meeting which is here in Richmond, VA, on (6/04/08) at the Holiday Inn on Midlothian Tnpk., I haven't heard back from my ex-friend/contact.

One very interesting part of the LTD sales pitch is that the mentors are putting in time and money to help each person below them along. And the best part is that the lower people think that this is all out of good will and kindness. And I quote from my contact," These people have time and money and they are willing to put their time in with me." What my contact doesn't understand is that without the bottom of the pyramid the top can't exist, the mentors are merely trying to stay alive and keep the pyramid growing. Of course they are going to be there for you, because as long as you're there, you are a potential revenue builder for them. See what they do once you quit!! With the exceptions of most fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, etc.

I second your comments Aaron, Scott, and Stefan.

Posted by: Tyson on June 3, 2008 10:22 PM

I was also contacted by a "distant friend" from High School. Why are they always distant friends you may ask? Because they don't want to embarrass themselves in front of their "real", close friends. After finally going to the cult meeting with bout 200 more people, I realized this was a bunch of bullshit and felt like punching my friend. It is true, they don't let you keep the brochures or let you know what they are all about...clearly this is a sign of control. They attempt to slowly lure you in, in suspicion of more info. I was asked after the meeting for a green , yellow, or red light. At the time then, I said yellow, but after viewing their website with my friend and realizing his tactics...I couldn't stop laughing. Here are some recollections.

First few days:
(I will label my friend as LTD)

Me: So what exactly do you guys do...is it selling stuff?
LTD: No, you actually do nothing really.

Me: Stay at home?
LTD: Yea, and work very few hours.

Me: Online selling or phone calling primarily then?
LTD: No, not really

Me: (silently to myself saying, "WTF is wrong with this picture?")

Me: Is their a website or someone else who I can call?
LTD: Umm......not right now


First little meeting:
(takes out brochure)

Me: So, basically you take out the middleman and you essentially be come him?
LTD: Well....sorta

Me: NO, thats what you are showing me...can I take this home?
LTD: No

Me: So, I am still lost...what exactly do you do then to get money.
LTD: Your gonna need to come to a seminar

(after seminar)

Me: Ok, well it looks like instead of buying stuff in stores, you buy it online.
LTD: yea (finally!! an answer)

Me: This means that I will need to spend either a lot of my own money buying this shit, or annoying my family and friends in doing it.
LTD: WEll, not necesiallrly..you can do this and that and blah blah ...blah..blah

LTD then shows me his first check for $112 after spending a little over $300 on his own. I was like, "great...this sucks already".

I saved the best for last and sorry for the spacing and format of this post..I can already see this looking like shit..but I want to get this out there. While showing me the website, he makes it CLEAR that its protected by this company and what not and that this "SPECIAL" products can only be bought online at this site and that so-and-so takes these vitamens...implying that I should therefore buy them. He also makes sure that I don't miss the Platinum and Crystal and whatever the fuck levels they have installed. Oh, and the island...Like I was really gonna let out an "ohhhhh" for that.


All in all people, this is bullshit and I thank the previous posters for posting their experiences because tomorrow, I tell them no and a little piece of my mind. I am just still afraid of the people that are actually gonna buy into this and ruin not only their lives, but the people around them. I'm an engineer, not a businessman, but this seems all to obvious of a not-so reputable business.

Posted by: Justin on June 5, 2008 01:33 AM


Yeah, I went to a meeting last night----look at all them circles and $$$$$$ flowing......
WHERE ARE THE PRODUCTS?????? NAMES/////NAMES....PRODUCTS.......

And now, you may go to www.ChristianTz.com for
awesome Christian T-shirts.......yeah baby!!!!

May God show you all the Truth through His Son, JESUS CHRIST......................

Posted by: Leonard on June 5, 2008 01:59 AM

Thank you Justin and Leonard! I am going to check on this site often. I am very curious if an LTD member has something to say.

Hey LTD members, how does it feel to have to work a real job to support your side job (LTD)? Personally I would hate to work as a teacher, as a receptionist, as an engineer, or any real job to support what I think is a revenue builder that I never earn money doing!!!! If you are in it for the Christians, since they are Christians, invite them over once a week to hang out for FREE. Why are you spending all your money making huge road trips to listen to these big deceivers? Anyone that is in that big of a crunch to earn money shouldn't be doing shopping online, shouldn't have internet, should use public transportation, not own a car, own a very practical house, mainly just needs a lifestyle change. Buying STUFF online is just digging a deeper hole.

I'm open to giving advice all day long, I spend around $45 a week on food, so I'm pretty savvy with my money.

Posted by: TyCat (formerly Tyson) on June 5, 2008 05:53 PM

Thank you Justin and Leonard! I am going to check on this site often. I am very curious if an LTD member has something to say.

Hey LTD members, how does it feel to have to work a real job to support your side job (LTD)? Personally I would hate to work as a teacher, as a receptionist, as an engineer, or any real job to support what I think is a revenue builder that I never earn money doing!!!! If you are in it for the Christians, since they are Christians, invite them over once a week to hang out for FREE. Why are you spending all your money making huge road trips to listen to these big deceivers? Anyone that is in that big of a crunch to earn money shouldn't be doing shopping online, shouldn't have internet, should use public transportation, not own a car, own a very practical house, mainly just needs a lifestyle change. Buying STUFF online is just digging a deeper hole.

I'm open to giving advice all day long, I spend around $45 a week on food, so I'm pretty savvy with my money.

Posted by: TyCat was Tyson on June 5, 2008 06:00 PM

Thank you Justin and Leonard! I am going to check on this site often. I am very curious if an LTD member has something to say.

Hey LTD members, how does it feel to have to work a real job to support your side job (LTD)? Personally I would hate to work as a teacher, as a receptionist, as an engineer, or any real job to support what I think is a revenue builder that I never earn money doing!!!! If you are in it for the Christians, since they are Christians, invite them over once a week to hang out for FREE. Why are you spending all your money making huge road trips to listen to these big deceivers? Anyone that is in that big of a crunch to earn money shouldn't be doing shopping online, shouldn't have internet, should use public transportation, not own a car, own a very practical house, mainly just needs a lifestyle change. Buying STUFF online is just digging a deeper hole.

I'm open to giving advice all day long, I spend around $45 a week on food, so I'm pretty savvy with my money.

Posted by: Tyson on June 5, 2008 06:02 PM
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